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Author Topic: Is Alex really the good guy? (vague spoilers)  (Read 4133 times)
nazcamonkey
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« on: January 19, 2008, 06:21:45 PM »

Alright, this might sound like a strange question, but I thought it'd be interesting to see what everyone's thoughts are on this.

When I was reading Snakehead, I picked up on this sentence: 'It was the first time he had fired in anger and with the deliberate intention to kill.' And it got me thinking - is there really a clear-cut definition of good and evil in the books, in that Alex intended to commit the same act, essentially, as Major Yu, the supposed villain?

Because AH included that sentence in amongst all the action, he seems to be suggesting a kind of significant 'development' or turning point in his character, especially considering Alex's acceptance of himself as a spy (and therefore the mindset/duties which it includes) at the start of the book.. and so perhaps that (and I apologise for quoting Harry Potter tongue) 'there is no good and evil; there is only power.'  Or can Alex's behaviour be justified, because the death of Major Yu would save the lives of thousands, who would have been killed by the tsunami - therefore Alex is working for 'the greater good' in the scheme of things?   

The truth is that Alex didn't manage to hit his target and so still remains the good guy - he didn't actually do anything that he could be condemned for - but there's definitely something there in that AH made a point of writing that he was no longer acting in self-defence. I'm intrigued to see where he will take this! Hopefully someplace darker and more twisty/ambiguous, because it'd be fascinating to see Alex's position as the 'saviour' become blurred. smiley
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 06:23:22 PM by nazcamonkey » Logged
gems
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 09:42:58 PM »

That's a pretty interesting idea.  smiley

i just always assumed Alex could do no wrong but i didn't notice that sentence...maybe Horowitz will go a bit darker in the next book..though i still can't see Alex shooting someone (even an evil guy) in cold blood. he's only 14, imagine killing someone at that age? hmmm one to think about anyway  wink
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Rainbowstar
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2008, 10:18:48 AM »

Fact of the matter is, all people have good and evil in them.  It's the circumstances that make it come out.  So it is quite possible for a general good guy to sometimes do evil acts, when the circumstances make them react so.
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Moonfox
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2008, 11:27:34 AM »

Personally, I don't see a hint of evil about quickly killing someobody who plans to murder several thousand people, just in order to prove some twisted point. I think the line was intended to show a character changing moment for Alex, that he is becoming "cold" about his job, but really... what would be so bad about killing Yu?

Does that make me sick? Tongue evil
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 07:28:35 PM »

Alex might've been angry but that doesn't mean he's bad
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Arya
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008, 08:09:10 AM »

Alex went through a lot. I think that sometimes changes people and it is not that when you want to stop someone killing thousend of that your the bad gay now. I think everyone ones in his or her lives does something he or she regret later and only the people who never regret what they did, are evil.
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2008, 06:09:38 PM »

Yeah, Alex saved the world (or part of it) so much times...how can he be considered as bad?  undecided
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2008, 10:51:31 PM »

how long did it take u 2 think tht up and then rite type it down? alex is the good guy
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when will the next book come out?!?
chogirl92
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2008, 11:15:18 PM »

What is a good guy? Someone who does good all the time, someone who does some good every now and then, or someone who does something good once? I guess it depends on your opinion of good guy to judge whether Alex is a good guy...I think he is, though, because he started off good, and has done loads of good things, despite doing some bad things, too smiley (wow, I sound like some lecturer sometimes)
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 03:45:59 AM »

Alright, this might sound like a strange question, but I thought it'd be interesting to see what everyone's thoughts are on this.

When I was reading Snakehead, I picked up on this sentence: 'It was the first time he had fired in anger and with the deliberate intention to kill.' And it got me thinking - is there really a clear-cut definition of good and evil in the books, in that Alex intended to commit the same act, essentially, as Major Yu, the supposed villain?

Because AH included that sentence in amongst all the action, he seems to be suggesting a kind of significant 'development' or turning point in his character, especially considering Alex's acceptance of himself as a spy (and therefore the mindset/duties which it includes) at the start of the book.. and so perhaps that (and I apologise for quoting Harry Potter tongue) 'there is no good and evil; there is only power.'  Or can Alex's behaviour be justified, because the death of Major Yu would save the lives of thousands, who would have been killed by the tsunami - therefore Alex is working for 'the greater good' in the scheme of things?   

The truth is that Alex didn't manage to hit his target and so still remains the good guy - he didn't actually do anything that he could be condemned for - but there's definitely something there in that AH made a point of writing that he was no longer acting in self-defence. I'm intrigued to see where he will take this! Hopefully someplace darker and more twisty/ambiguous, because it'd be fascinating to see Alex's position as the 'saviour' become blurred. smiley


Alex was a little evil in scorpia though if you read it and remember it. but he still had some good in him even though he was bad.
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nazcamonkey
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2008, 10:49:29 PM »

I didn't expect to get so many comments on this, sorry I haven't replied sooner - also, sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean to tongue

though i still can't see Alex shooting someone (even an evil guy) in cold blood. he's only 14, imagine killing someone at that age?

See, this is what got me, cos AH was strongly implying that he *would* kill someone, otherwise why would he have written that he picked a gun up and intended to shoot with it? It struck me as something deliberately different from 'the norm' where if people have died around him, he's never *directly* killed them, you know? I suppose the question then is whether his intentions can be considered as important as his acts.. as in, if he had killed, would that make him a 'worse' person than his just intending to. Hmm. wink

Fact of the matter is, all people have good and evil in them.  It's the circumstances that make it come out.  So it is quite possible for a general good guy to sometimes do evil acts, when the circumstances make them react so.

That's very true! It just seems more unusual to portray the main, good character (especially such a James Bond-esque one like Alex) as someone who would intentionally commit murder, and then just accept it as part of human nature.  Personally, I would love it if Alex does start to get more tempted to resort to shooting etc because then we're dealing with a whole other personal aspect to the novels, directly in relation to him. But (generally) up to now Alex has been one-sided throughout, just the good guy, like you'd expect from books like these, that's why the sentence stood out for me. smiley

I think the line was intended to show a character changing moment for Alex, that he is becoming "cold" about his job, but really... what would be so bad about killing Yu?

I definitely agree that he would have been killing for a good cause, and that's a good way of putting it, that he's becoming cold about his job.  I'm just wondering what the implications are of him becoming cold are though, long-term - cos surely if, say, he is 'cold' enough to kill enough people, does that make him any better than the other, 'evil' people who planned to kill? It could make him someone else's 'villain' in the way that Yu was Alex's villain, if that makes any sense. Of course, it's all hypothetical anyway.

Alex went through a lot. I think that sometimes changes people and it is not that when you want to stop someone killing thousend of that your the bad gay now. I think everyone ones in his or her lives does something he or she regret later and only the people who never regret what they did, are evil.

Good point smiley I guess we don't know whether Alex would have regretted killing Yu or not! But then, if he hadn't regretted it, and even though thousands of people would have been saved, would he be the bad guy then?  wink

how long did it take u 2 think tht up and then rite type it down? alex is the good guy

Nothing like discussion!

What is a good guy? Someone who does good all the time, someone who does some good every now and then, or someone who does something good once? I guess it depends on your opinion of good guy to judge whether Alex is a good guy...I think he is, though, because he started off good, and has done loads of good things, despite doing some bad things, too smiley (wow, I sound like some lecturer sometimes)

I didn't think of this! I guess I was going by the children's book, clear-cut definition of the superhero character who can't do anything wrong, but you've possibly hit the most feasible answer  wink Because like you say, he's always aiming to 'do good', meaning to save the greatest number of people, rather than harm them, which is the key difference between him and the villains. So maybe AH is just ignoring traditional stereotypes of good and evil and replacing them with his own versions.
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Ayu_chan
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2008, 11:44:48 PM »

did he actually killed somebody? I can't remember because it was a lot of time ago...
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Moonfox
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 09:09:41 AM »

I don't think he's directly killed somebody...  tongue

Nazcamonkey: Very, very good responses to all of those. You're a good thinker aren't you?  grin
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Kaurageous_rocks
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 10:08:58 PM »

I don't see bad in killing someone who plans to kill innicents
maybe I'm evil I don't think so !
but even though I don't see him killing someone he's only 14!!!
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paulthemaster1234
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2008, 06:17:41 AM »

He killed ASH but he was a liar traitor killer so we dont count that. I liked him at first but he tried to kill Alex cripple Alex and help kill thousands . He deserved to die.[no offence to anybody callled Ash]
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